Session Start: Tue Feb 08 18:11:48 2000
*** Now talking in #spam!
*** Topic is 'The Comic Book Fan Fiction Writing Channel'
*** Set by Samy on Thu Jan 27 02:06:50
#SPAM! url is http://mash.yok.utu.fi/spam!/
<Samy> Hey Smoot.
<`Smoot> Hey. Figured I'd lurk in here too for a while, to see if anyone comes in to talk about writing.
<`Harlequin> Nope. Not today.
* Samy hehs. "What would you like to talk about regarding writing?" :)

["God knows we've got the bandwidth to do it in the god-forsaken starved-for-attention room..."]

* `Smoot grins. Oh, not much, but I started coming IRC TO work with my writing... but we've been down that long inflammatory road too many times.
* Samy snickers. "Oh, very good point."
<Samy> I know how you feel, I feel the same way a lot of time.
* `Harlequin hehs, and nods.
<`Smoot> And as I've said, sadly, this place, more often than not, is deader than Hulk Hogan's presidential career.
* Samy nodnods. "Sadly, yeah."
* `Smoot stretches. "I've got a writing-only channel set up of my own, but I'll try to drop by here as much as possible. I think trying to make #subcafe back into strictly a fic channel isn't going to work, well, at all.
* Samy nodnods. "Not really, because it has to remain a landing point for newbies, and as such, it's good to keep it casual, I think."
<`Smoot> Yeah. See, I thought it was a good idea to have the social channel. I wasn't about to recommend putting it back for fanfic. But I also think having the only active writing channel be a private invute-only shindig is, well, stupid.
* Samy nods. "Extremely. Which is why I started this, but it doesn't help very much when 95% of people get invited to #plotting."
* `Smoot shakes his head. It's NOT 95%. There are a LOT of us who can't get in there. I should know, I've asked for help for as long as I've been on. Every time, they redirect me here. Every time, it's just been Redhawk in here.
* Samy blinks. "Really? Who else?"
<`Smoot> Well, most of the population of #subcafe isn't in there. Phrykyh and I aren't. I'm not entirely sure who's not all in there, but I know that the doors, according to Datura, have closed.
* `Harlequin spits and mutters. Stupid fucking plotting elitists...
<`Smoot> Harle: I'm a bit annoyed too, but let's try to keep this respectful. I've learned that swearing and ranting reduces your political sway to about nil.
* `Harlequin has zip political sway and could give a shit less, so... there youa re.

[Harlequin was a long past history with #plotting, one that I barely know and am not about to delve into, so just pass over most of what she says, I suppose.]

*** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Feb 08 18:31:23 2000

[Damn ISP.]

Session Start: Tue Feb 08 18:31:38 2000
*** Now talking in #spam!
*** Topic is 'The Comic Book Fan Fiction Writing Channel'
*** Set by Samy on Thu Jan 27 02:06:50
#SPAM! url is http://mash.yok.utu.fi/spam!/
<`Smoot> Gah.
* `Smoot shrugs. I guess my biggest gripe overall is that I can't really do what I came on IRC for because a load pf bureaucratic b.s.
<`Harlequin> ??
* Samy nodnods to Smoot. "Yeah."
<`Harlequin> To be honest, I've sorta... dropped from hte fic scene after the Kaylee Incident.

[I actually don't know what the Kaylee Incident is, but this point's rather moot. The good stuff's coming.]

* Samy is idle for a moment, I need to quickly take care of something...gimme 5m.
<`Smoot> The other big thing that annoys me is that, when it all comes down to it, all of this fanfic CRAP is a freakin' hobby. Everyone seems to lose track of that in their endeavors.

[There was a bit of a rant in here, one that's not ultimately important. That's why it went bye-bye. As usual, I have everything completely logged, so if you want it, email me. Link's at the bottom of the rant page.]

<`Smoot> See, I don't do challenges, or round robins anymore, or a lot of stuff. I write a little bit of fic, some original short stories, poetry, and I'm co-writing a fic with Spade. I don't let stuff like feedback get to me.
* `Harlequin has never let feedback be a goal... but still, after I realized that 90
<`Smoot> I know that it's easier said than done, but my ego, unlike a lot of people's, doesn't hinge on feedback from fic writers. I know that I'm damn good. I don't need anyone else telling me this. :)
* `Harlequin has never let feedback be a goal... but still, after I realized that 90% of ficcers out there were jsut wanking to thier own imagined greatness and that I was unworthy of attention, I gave up.

[Never... let feedback be a goal...? Eh?]

<`Smoot> Harle: Bitter, are we?
* Samy nods to Smoot. "Same here."
* `Smoot shrugs. I'm not yet. I know the CBFFAs were a joke, though.

[The CBFFAs were the Comic Book Fan-Fiction Awards, given to a group of writers for their stories that were deemed fantastic by... a collection of their best friends and "pat-on-the-backers". Stories were nominated that never should've stood near the top, and wonderful stories were passed over because their author wasn't one of the "in" crowd. Welcome to the Grammies of Subreality, Billy Crystal hosts.]

<Samy> The CBFFAs were a *colossal* popularity contest.
<Samy> They had nothing whatsoever to do with what's *good*.
<Samy> Only which authors beg for publicity all over the place. :)
<`Smoot> Samy, you hang around #subcafe a good deal, right?
<Samy> Eh. So-so. Depends on my mood. Sometimes I can go for weeks without it, but in general I guess I'm one of the regulars yeah.
<`Smoot> So you've seen, as one friend of mine has put it, "the mutual patting-on-the-back"?
* Samy laughs. "Have I *EVER*."
* `Harlequin nodsnods at CBFFAs and then at the 'pat-on-the-back'...bleh o.o
<Samy> That's one of the cornerstones of the 'big names' in the community. Indigo, Kaylee, Alicia McKenzie... They're no better than dozens of writers out there, they just make friends better. :)

[Heh... Samy's awesome.]

<`Smoot> Right. See, I was a big fan of Lori McDonald's writing, when she was still around. She's damn good. And I'm pretty sure she earned it. And I read a story of Indigo's, and liked it, but I'm pretty sure my current stuff is on par with hers.
* Samy isn't saying they're bad, mind you. Just that they're not head and shoulders above the rest, like people seem to think they have to think.
* Samy nodnods.
* `Smoot nods. My personal vice is that I have a tendency to voice this whenever I feel like it's necessary. :)
<`Harlequin> Indi is not a ficgoddes... and... <shrug> Kaylee isn't either. She's good, but she's not, y' know, a goddes.
* Samy nods to Mandy. "Yup."
* Samy grins to Smoot. "No prob."
<`Smoot> See, with you guys, it's cool. You more or less agree, but I'd be fine if you didn't. However, do it in #subcafe, and I imagine I'd be kicked.
* Samy grins. "I wouldn't be surprised if you would be."
*** Phrykyh has joined #spam!

[We were in my personal chan, #insidethewall, which is seldom ever used, and I told him that there was some a-doings transpirin' in here. It picks up at this point.]

*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phrykyh
<Samy> Phry!
* `Harlequin shrugs. No, you can't be kicked for expressing an opinion. But then, that doesn't mean you won't be.
<Phrykyh> Greetings and salutations.
* `Smoot nods. I usually try to be polite, but I'm discovering that doesn't help. Being the swift kick in the ass doesn't either, but it's fun.
<`Smoot> Harle: I think it's possible. I'm the one who started this whole #plotting/#subcafe debacle.
<Samy> Smoot: Which debacle?
<`Smoot> Samy: We had a nice, long fight in there about how #plotting wasn't for the masses, and now I said that the current system of helping writers didn't do jack. Frito ended up calling in half of the #plotting ops to shut me up.

[THAT was a scene. You read it, though. You know where I'm coming from.]

<Samy> Smoot: Ah.
<`Harlequin> Merph.
<`Harlequin> Frito... is low in regard with me.
<`Smoot> I didn't make many friends that night, and Kiko was being uncharacteristically rude, I remember. That annoyed me.
* Samy hnhs and nods.

[Kiko and Samy are, last I checked, an item, so I'm sure that comment went over lovely. I was being polite, though, I actually like Kiko. Most of the time.]

[Since writing that above four months ago, my opinions have sort of shifted.]

<`Smoot> But I digress, that wasn't the big thing.
<Samy> So what was?
<`Smoot> The fact that all the rooms to help writing were either neglected, or invite-only, which I thought defeated the whole purpose of inviting new writers to IRC to develop them.
* Samy nods. "Very true." He sighs. "I really wish this room would've taken off. I know I don't come here much anymore, mostly because I figured no one else did either."
* `Harlequin comes in here everytime she's on.
<Phrykyh> That's why nobody comes here much.
<Samy> Phry: Is there more than 3-5 people who'd come here anyway?
<Phrykyh> I haven't a clue. Nobody comes to an empty room.
* Samy nods.
<Phrykyh> If people came, more people would come. That's pretty much how it works.
<`Smoot> Only trick is, people aren't going to come unless more come. Which, as that horrible logic will show you, probably is impossible.
<Phrykyh> You've got the people who'd take a chance on an empty room. I -like- rooms of three-seven people. I'm just not fond of fan-fiction, which is why I'm not here a whole lot.
* Samy hms. "I'm open to any suggestions. I can renew my commitment to the channel and be here anytime I'm around, but I don't know what else I could do, so I'm open to suggestions."
<Samy> Phry: I like smaller rooms in general as well, however for the purposes of generating comments on spam, the more, the better...
<Phrykyh> I'll take a good group of three over a miscellaneous group of thirty any day.
* `Smoot shrugs. I'll be in here every now and then, but that means I'll have three chans open.
<`Smoot> Phry: Amen.
* Samy nods to Phry. "Point."
<`Smoot> So let's see. We've got essentially two writing channels now outside of plotting. This one, for fanfiction, and mine, #insidethewall, for all sorts of writing.

[I had set up my own chan temporarily for writing help, since there really wasn't anything else happening. I think it was like that for the day before this conversation. It's back to being my own personal wah-wah place.]

* Samy nods. "That's about the size of it."
<`Smoot> Sad.
<Samy> How so? Should there be more?
<`Smoot> Well, the fact that there are about four of us that frequent these rooms...
<`Harlequin> Heh.
* Samy nods to Smoot. "Which brings us back to..."
<Samy> * Samy nods. "Extremely. Which is why I started this, but it doesn't help very much when 95% of people get invited to #plotting."

[Now, let's look at this. "No, we're not a writing channel, however, that's what we'll act like we do, and publicize ourselves as, and invite all of our friends and leave the rest of you talented people in the cold. And we'll not support your channels by coming to them. Ha."]

<`Smoot> Well, there's got to be a place for the rest of the outcasts, for lack of a better term.
* Phrykyh grins. I get to be an outcast.
* Samy grins at Phry.
<Samy> I thought I was an outcast IRL already. :)
<Phrykyh> We ought to combine #spam! and #insidethewall into, like, #misfits -- that might get a bit more attention."

[We'd never get anywhere if Phrykyh didn't come up with all these good ideas.]

<`Smoot> Taken.
<Phrykyh> You're kidding.
<`Smoot> Just checked.
* Samy snickers.
<Phrykyh> Good. At least you didn't know that off the top of your head.
* `Smoot grins.
<`Smoot> But yeah, I'm all for combining these two chans, if that's cool with the person who set this up, which I think was you, Samy.
<Samy> Hey, it sure can't make #SPAM! any deader. :)
<`Harlequin> Hee.
<`Smoot> Well, channel names, anyone?
* Samy thinks.
<Samy> #samy's_house_of_luv?

[Heh.]

<Phrykyh> #not-plotting.
<Samy> ROTFL!
* Samy grins. "I'll vote for #not-plotting!
* `Smoot likes #not-plotting, and it would get attention...
<`Smoot> And, it's not taken.
<`Smoot> Obviously.
<Samy> I'd have been REALLY surprised if it had been. :)
<Phrykyh> It might be sort of obnoxious, if that bothers anyone.
* `Smoot grins. Doesn't bother me.
* Samy grins. "I don't really care. But then, I have a reputation for putting a good joke above peoples' feelings." :)

[This is how the name was chosen. No evil plotting, no malicious scheming over a fire by night, no secrecy, no cruel intentions. A play on words. And we layeth the smacketh down.]

<`Smoot> And are we really worried about hurting feelings of elitists?

[Yes! *I* called them elitists! Crucify me! But prove me wrong first!]

* Phrykyh ahems. I am an elitist.
<Phrykyh> Samy: Not to push into your personal life, but I wouldn't want to cause you any problems... just to make sure and all.
<Phrykyh> But no. Not really.
<`Smoot> Phry: Not elitists that are on our side.
* Samy shrugs. "I think it's a funny name, and I'm for it."
<`Smoot> My vote's yes.
<Samy> My vote's yes.
* Phrykyh shrugs. It was my idea. If anyone threatens to kill me, I was joking. Otherwise, the name doesn't matter to me.
* Samy grins.
<`Smoot> Well, I just registered it, so it's ours now. :)
<Samy> Keen. :)
<Phrykyh> Someone ought to log the past twenty minutes for posterity.
<`Smoot> Got it.
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Feb 08 21:20:27 2000

[Come with me, as we journey into the land of the new channel... and the fun. Well, more of it, if you consider the last part fun. On, to The Birth Of #Not-Plotting.]